Monday, November 28, 2011
Here is a new sniper weapon platform system that I had Mesa Tactical come up with which they used their considerable experience in stock and rail developments to refine this into a robust, functional, practical and economical sniper weapon system. X-Caliber will be debuted at the Shot Show this year so feel free if you are going and take a look. Please note there are special features to this that I can not discuss at this time but I would love to hear your initial reaction and feedback! mysite.verizon.net/res1erbs/xcaliber/ Bling pics have been removed as requested. Take a look and let me know what you think. Semper Fi, Gregg Zak-Smith 1/23/2008 12:58:30 AM Does the stock/stock adapter telescope during recoil? lonehunter 1/23/2008 1:22:15 AM Originally Posted By Zak-Smith: Does the stock/stock adapter telescope during recoil? Yes that is correct. It is a hydraulic recoil shock absorber extension tube for collapisble stocks. www.mesatactical.com/index.php?id=94 Semper Fi, Gregg Zak-Smith 1/23/2008 1:35:41 AM My experience with such system so far leads me to believe they are one of the most stupid ideas to be applied to precision rifles. I am much more concerned with accuracy and the rifle staying on target through recoil, than reducing "felt recoil"-- which in compressible systems means that the rifle/action is moving backward and forward vs. the buttstock. Since the buttstock is the object on which the shooter provides force to counter recoil and keep the rifle in the same place, now the action and optics are moving relative to the shooter, which in turn screws up eye relief and sight picture. Another dramatic failure is when you combine a heavy-recoiling rifle with a scope that has eye relief on the short end (like the USO's), and one of these compressible stocks. The stock is designed to compress to reduce "recoil", however, you now lose a bunch of eye relief immediately and are much more likely to get smacked. I've seen this happen. There's no way to get a more solid position on the gun, because the gun moves vs. its stock. But I haven't tried yours. Maybe it's different. 007Kevin 1/23/2008 2:28:00 AM I like the look of the stock and gun alone. This may be ignorant and not to HJ thread but why do you need all that stuff on there in the other pics and what good would they do? -forward vertical grip -small weapon mounted light *maybe not alot of stuff but other stuff? It's a bolt action, not something I associate with CQC switch to AR or HG septic-tank13 1/23/2008 7:15:06 AM when we shoot whether it is for uncle sam, or on the bench, or anywhere else, it is necessary we employ measures to remain consistent above all. that is where our accuracy lies. we don't always seek to remove motion from the sceanrio, but those motions we can't stop need to remain consistent from shot to shot to provide accuracy. some radial and plenty of axial movement by a hydraulic stock isn't going to be good for accuracy. it will likely add problems. maybe not, but probably... like zak, i'm also concerned with rearward movement under recoil. if the objective is to lessen the recoil felt by the shooter it would seem a mistake to allow the rig to move rearward under recoil - after all you really don't need it on nonmagnum calibers, so those cals offering the most boom are those most likely to bite you anyway... you'll end up eating the scope at some point potentially. i ate a 50BMG once, i hope to never get bitten by a scope again... again, i'm just thinking out loud, as i haven't tried your unit. what i'm interested in is the chassis system and the properties of how you're affixing this stock to the action. also, is that factory or aftermarket bottom metal with somebody's mag or is that integral to the system and what mag does it support? weight? construction materials? i dig the AICS except i'm not a thumbhole guy. if somebody can come up with something to compete with it i'd imagine there may be some interest out here. -ST13 Harlikwin 1/23/2008 8:56:57 AM I agree with Zak and Septic. You don't want some sort of shock absorbing system on a precision rifle. And no offense, but your ad looks like something you'd see from TAPCO. Rob01 [Moderator] 1/23/2008 9:53:11 AM I'm with Zak and ST13 on the recoil system. It might be fine on an iron sighted shotgun but it wouldn't be a good thing in a precision rifle for the reasons mentioned. What's the bedding system? Aluminum block like an HS or does it get conventionally bedded? Is the DM floorplate all part of the stock or does it come off? I'm not one for hanging loads of shit off my rifle as are most of the serious rifle shooters I know so the pics below the basic stock really aren't going to appeal to anyone except the "tacti cool" crowd and might cost sales. You might have them tone it back a bit for SHOT. What booth you going to be at at SHOT? ETA: The more I thought about the recoil system the more it bothered me about what the bipod would be doing during recoil. With a normal stock the recoil is transfered back into the shooter who is a heavy object so the whole rifle doesn't move much including the bipod feet. With the recoil system the whole front of the rifle would move during recoil however far the recoil system is set up to move, which looks like about 1-2". People have problems with bipod hop, although I never did, with a normal system but when you have the majority of the rifle free recoiling the bipod would move more than I would like which would also make follow up shots harder. Just some thoughts. Any info you could give to explain it all would be great. LoneWolfUSMC 1/23/2008 9:53:27 AM NO THANK YOU!!!! I will stick with the McMillan A1/A5 or at most the new JAE-700 when it's available. I like the thought of being able to alter the palmswell/comb/pull to my body, but after that it gets a little too crazy. About the only add-ons I can see needed on a precision rifle is a NV Optic and possible a IR Laser Designator. I don't need rails festooned all over the stock unless it's to attach a bipod/monopod. lonehunter 1/23/2008 10:25:42 AM Originally Posted By Zak-Smith: My experience with such system so far leads me to believe they are one of the most stupid ideas to be applied to precision rifles. I am much more concerned with accuracy and the rifle staying on target through recoil, than reducing "felt recoil"-- which in compressible systems means that the rifle/action is moving backward and forward vs. the buttstock. Since the buttstock is the object on which the shooter provides force to counter recoil and keep the rifle in the same place, now the action and optics are moving relative to the shooter, which in turn screws up eye relief and sight picture. Another dramatic failure is when you combine a heavy-recoiling rifle with a scope that has eye relief on the short end (like the USO's), and one of these compressible stocks. The stock is designed to compress to reduce "recoil", however, you now lose a bunch of eye relief immediately and are much more likely to get smacked. I've seen this happen. There's no way to get a more solid position on the gun, because the gun moves vs. its stock. But I haven't tried yours. Maybe it's different. Thanks for interest. By reducing recoil or felt recoil as it applies to the operators perception of reality the Shot Shock actually helps (not hinders) you by staying on target and getting a faster secondary acquisition on multiple targets. I personally have this on my shotguns, FAL, AK47, X-Caliber, and a .50 Cal BMG with not problems of the scope hitting me in the face. I encourage you all to try it out for yourself and determine wether or not it is something for you. Of course you do not need it on X-Caliber if you so choose not to. There is a great review of it in the March issue of Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement. Semper Fi, Gregg lonehunter 1/23/2008 10:29:32 AM Originally Posted By 007Kevin: I like the look of the stock and gun alone. This may be ignorant and not to HJ thread but why do you need all that stuff on there in the other pics and what good would they do? -forward vertical grip -small weapon mounted light *maybe not alot of stuff but other stuff? It's a bolt action, not something I associate with CQC switch to AR or HG Hello, Again all the bling on there is just to show what you could do if you wanted and not necessarily that you would all at the same time unless the mission called for it. The forward grip is used if you are a sniper on the top of a building on a ledge aiming down onto the street as an example to get better stability and control. The small weapon mounted light is utilized when climbing up the stairs of the building if it was dark to get to your position. You never know when you would need a light and it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. Semper Fi, Gregg lonehunter 1/23/2008 10:34:14 AM Originally Posted By Rob01: What's the bedding system? Aluminum block like an HS or does it get conventionally bedded?
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