Sunday, February 19, 2012
248
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 3:01:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 3:02:11 PM EDT by JustJim]
Not mil, just a 'hobby shooter'. My AR is also my HD weapon. One click out. Compact and gives me good cheek-weld and sight picture.
ETA: I'm 5'8, 170.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
evlblkwpnz
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Aug 2008
USA FL, USA
Gunshine State Native
Offline
Posts: 3124
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (39)
9/27/2011 3:07:43 PM EDT
I assume that you want to use the weapon while standing, so use the minimum length that will allow a good view of your iron sights of the proper eye relaid for your optic. The 3rd position out seems to be the sweet spot for me with a small aperture and around 4 or 5 with a large one.
What type of rear sight are you using?
I use the AR-15 Stocks further out when I am benched.
I am a slave to my creations.... my image cannot be seen in them, but they bear my heart and soul - evl....
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
SickMAK90
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2004
USA WV, USA
What goes here?!
Online
Posts: 6122
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (9)
9/27/2011 3:15:26 PM EDT
I always run my 2 spots out from the shortest position. Most of my friends adjust it all the way out when they shoot my rifles for some reason. I have ape arms and I love the rifle being tucked in close.
If you are in the Huntington, WV area check out Herd Tactical. www.herdtactical.com 304-302-0509
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
kkuo12887
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
USA NJ, USA
Offline
Posts: 7
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 3:15:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
I assume that you want to use the weapon while standing, so use the minimum length that will allow a good view of your iron sights of the proper eye relaid for your optic. The 3rd position out seems to be the sweet spot for me with a small aperture and around 4 or 5 with a large one.
What type of rear sight are you using?
I use the AR-15 Stocks further out when I am benched.
Yes, primarily while standing (unsupported). It seems that having the AR-15 Stocks extended out a little farther while shooting from the prone position is more comfortable.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
sinlessorrow
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2010
USA TX, USA
Member
Online
Posts: 3613
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (18)
9/27/2011 3:18:30 PM EDT
im 5'10" and run my AR-15 Stockss fully collapsed
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
contax_shooter
Member
Member
Joined: Aug 2011
USA USA
Offline
Posts: 33
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (2)
9/27/2011 3:32:04 PM EDT
2 stops from fully collapsed with standard 7" carbine rail.
1 stop from fully collapsed with 11" rail.
Further reach on the front end, makes better ergonomics with the AR-15 Stocks more collapsed.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Mb121
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Mar 2003
USA MS, USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 857
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (3)
9/27/2011 3:33:32 PM EDT
For me it depends on what AR-15 Stocks it is and if I am wearing a vest or other gear. Anywhere from the 1/2 position (1st notch) to fully extended is what I normally use. For the CTR I found myself running it from the 1/2 position when shooting with body armor, without I would use the 3/4. For me it boiled down to being able to keep my shooter stance and remaining comfortable while shooting (i.e not having to stain my neck to the sight or allowed me to bring the sight to my face without having to readjust).
Really it will depend on you the individual, often you have to play around with it to find the best position for you.
Tomahawks, 3rd SBCT
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Augee
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Sep 2006
USA USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 3860
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (34)
9/27/2011 3:37:09 PM EDT
Shooting with hard plates (IOTV) and without (FLC) are two different things, and you'll need the AR-15 Stocks at different positions to shoot the same way.
FWIW- while patrolling, particularly if vehicle based, you will find that it's probably easiest to roll with the AR-15 Stocks all the way collapsed, when wearing hard plates, you'll find that it's not so cramped. Without the body armor, I usually run mine one notch out on an M4 receiver extension (4 position), which equates to two or three notches out on a 6 position AR-15 Stocks, basically just far enough that you can see the slanted end of the "track" that the locking pin sits in without any of the straight bottom exposed.
This is to shoot "squared up" with the target, as if presenting plates to the enemy. That being said, different positions dictate different AR-15 Stocks lengths, I pull the AR-15 Stocks out further. I also tend to shoot NTCH whenever possible, though.
IMHO, if stuck in Jersey, decide which AR-15 Stocks you plan to run first (personally not a big fan of the MOE that DDs come with- though I like the CTR), and have that pinned. Since most of your shooting on your personal carbine is going to be done without wearing hard plates, have it pinned where it's comfortable offhand. Realize that if and when you need to use your weapon, it's probably going to be in a moment, "oh shit!" because if you're doing a whole lot of trigger pulling as an LT, you're either not fighting your troops correctly, and don't actually run them; or, no one's really expecting to go home that day.
~Augee
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
kkuo12887
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
USA NJ, USA
Offline
Posts: 8
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 3:41:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Augee:
Shooting with hard plates (IOTV) and without (FLC) are two different things, and you'll need the AR-15 Stocks at different positions to shoot the same way.
FWIW- while patrolling, particularly if vehicle based, you will find that it's probably easiest to roll with the AR-15 Stocks all the way collapsed, when wearing hard plates, you'll find that it's not so cramped. Without the body armor, I usually run mine one notch out on an M4 receiver extension (4 position), which equates to two or three notches out on a 6 position AR-15 Stocks, basically just far enough that you can see the slanted end of the "track" that the locking pin sits in without any of the straight bottom exposed.
This is to shoot "squared up" with the target, as if presenting plates to the enemy. That being said, different positions dictate different AR-15 Stocks lengths, I pull the AR-15 Stocks out further. I also tend to shoot NTCH whenever possible, though.
IMHO, if stuck in Jersey, decide which AR-15 Stocks you plan to run first (personally not a big fan of the MOE that DDs come with- though I like the CTR), and have that pinned. Since most of your shooting on your personal carbine is going to be done without wearing hard plates, have it pinned where it's comfortable offhand. Realize that if and when you need to use your weapon, it's probably going to be in a moment, "oh shit!" because if you're doing a whole lot of trigger pulling as an LT, you're either not fighting your troops correctly, and don't actually run them; or, no one's really expecting to go home that day.
~Augee
Truth. Either it's becoming a really bad situation or it already is one. Hopefully it's not a demotion from PL to Rifleman because of earth shattering incompetence.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
kkuo12887
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
USA NJ, USA
Offline
Posts: 9
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 4:01:15 PM EDT
Also, is AR-15 Stocks pinning reversible? If you find the position to be less than desirable can you re-pin the AR-15 Stocks in a different setting using the same components you previously used or do some components need to be replaced?
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
taylor7401
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Sep 2008
USA TX, USA
Member
Online
Posts: 1000
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 4:02:06 PM EDT
All the way out with a butt pad strapped on and some foam padding taped to it, but I'm 6'8'' tall.
YMMV
Daniel
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
sgwlower
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jul 2003
USA RI, USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 3458
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (23)
9/27/2011 4:04:14 PM EDT
6'2" 1st or second notch depending on clothing.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Duffy
Company Rep
Dealer
Joined: Jan 2001
USA USA
Battle Arms Development
Online
Posts: 14507
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (47)
9/27/2011 5:46:52 PM EDT
AR-15 Stocks completely closed pretty much all the time, except with my SPRs with Leupold Mk4 scopes that stick out toward the back quite a bit (with ARMS rings).
My favorite scope is the 4x32 ACOG, with its 1.5" eye relief, it requires the AR-15 Stocks to be closed or in its first position. After a while, I don't bother extending it even when I shoot with an Aimpoint or EOTech.
With body armor, AR-15 Stocks completely collapsed is the only way to get a good eye relief on the ACOG, so I just simplify everything by shooting with it closed all the time.
Battle Arms Development
http://battlearmsdevelopment.com
For LE/MIL, and firefighter discount, please email me at:
roger@battlearmsdevelopment.com
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
woode
Member
Member
Joined: May 2010
USA PA, USA
Offline
Posts: 700
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 7:58:25 PM EDT
5'11", 3rd click out usually (+/- 1 depending)
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
jcshunter
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: May 2005
USA TN, USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 379
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 8:21:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 8:23:08 PM EDT by jcshunter]
I use position 2 on a Vltor 5 holer. You might consider this and add 1/2 to 1 inch pad to get to the lenght you want and seems better than a pinned AR-15 Stocks 1/2 inch pad seems best.
JCS
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
engineer2001
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
USA GA, USA
Offline
Posts: 9448
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (117)
9/27/2011 8:41:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jcshunter:
I use position 2 on a Vltor 5 holer. You might consider this and add 1/2 to 1 inch pad to get to the lenght you want and seems better than a pinned AR-15 Stocks 1/2 inch pad seems best.
JCS
Yeah, I use one of those ARFX-E AR-15 Stockss on a 9mm AR carbine, and it is the perfect length with the 1" pad to put my nose on the charging handle. I find the A1 fixed AR-15 Stocks to also be about the perfect length for me. I am 6'7" tall, though, so your length may vary.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
epsgunner
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2011
USA PA, USA
Offline
Posts: 611
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (5)
9/27/2011 8:47:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kkuo12887:
Also, is AR-15 Stocks pinning reversible? If you find the position to be less than desirable can you re-pin the AR-15 Stocks in a different setting using the same components you previously used or do some components need to be replaced?
I drill a small hole and drop a roll pin in.. then to reverse I remove the roll pin.. last time I used a trigger guard roll pin... USUALLY you can pop it back out from the opposite side (if you drilled thru) using a punch or icepick..
Granted your SUPPOSED to epoxy over the PIN to make it not easily reversible..
of course if your getting THAT TIGHTLY INSPECTED your usually in trouble for something bigger in life.. IMHO..
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
wrenchmonkey
Member
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
USA UT, USA
Offline
Posts: 672
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 8:50:00 PM EDT
In before the comment advising you to 'move to a free state'.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
dcs12345
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Oct 2005
USA TX, USA
KABOOM!!!!!!!
Online
Posts: 5772
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (33)
9/27/2011 9:33:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 9:52:37 PM EDT by dcs12345]
Originally Posted By SickMAK90:
I always run my 2 spots out from the shortest position. Most of my friends adjust it all the way out when they shoot my rifles for some reason. I have ape arms and I love the rifle being tucked in close.
Most likely your friends are standing bladed to the target instead of squared up.
I like the AR-15 Stocks on my SBR two clicks out, as well as the acs AR-15 Stocks on my 16" with Acog. (the slanted part of the slotted track is just sticking out of the AR-15 Stocks)
I am around 6'3"
Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country.
~John Adams
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
kkuo12887
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
USA NJ, USA
Offline
Posts: 10
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 9:37:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wrenchmonkey:
In before the comment advising you to 'move to a free state'.
Heh. I always wonder what goes through the minds of those who make these suggestions? Do they honestly think that someone's going to say, Oh! Darn it! Why didn't I think of that yesterday? Let me pack my bags because I'm moving tomorrow."
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
wrenchmonkey
Member
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
USA UT, USA
Offline
Posts: 674
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 9:40:08 PM EDT
Well, HAD it occurred to you then? Why didn't you already do that, if you already thought of it
LOL!
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
JoshAston
Lifetime Member
Life Member
Joined: Oct 2008
UZB UZB
Military
Percussion Instruments Are My Specialty
Online
Posts: 12935
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (3)
9/27/2011 10:56:34 PM EDT
I'd call up DD and see if they can send you a rifle with a Sully AR-15 Stocks on it. It might be ugly and a little on the heavy side, but it's the perfect length, and there won't be any need to pin it.
I, like God, do not play with dice and do not believe in coincidence.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
pun
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
USA USA
Offline
Posts: 2014
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (41)
9/28/2011 1:33:58 AM EDT
Try a stubby AR-15 Stocks its a half sized fixed M16 AR-15 Stocks with a carbine spring and buffer its about an inch shorter than an adjustable AR-15 Stocks 2 notches out from closed.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Krylancelo
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2008
USA NE, USA
"Average Earth Person"
Offline
Posts: 2695
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (6)
9/28/2011 9:30:01 AM EDT
I'm about 6' tall. I run my AR-15 Stocks about 3 clicks out on a 6 position so I'm guessing that's equal to about 2 clicks out on a 4 position.
Proud member of the National Rifle Association, Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, and Eastern Nebraska Gun Club.
I avoid political discussion because no one agrees with my strange mix of beliefs. But I am pro-gun, pro-self defense, and pro-America.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
TangoPapa
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2011
USA CT, USA
Offline
Posts: 66
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/28/2011 10:50:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 10:55:57 AM EDT by TangoPapa]
It honestly depends on what the rifle will be used for. I am 5'8" and 180lbs and I pinned my AR-15 Stocks in the first setting. My gun is primarily a home defense gun and I liked the way it felt when moving around a corner with the short AR-15 Stocks.
I do however have an a2 AR-15 Stocks as well and if I plan on taking it to the range I tend to swap the AR-15 Stockss out (I need a new lower ). Luckily for me though I will be leaving this ban state soon enough, and with any luck I will be stationed at Fort Benning.
Originally Posted By epsgunner:
Originally Posted By kkuo12887:
Also, is AR-15 Stocks pinning reversible? If you find the position to be less than desirable can you re-pin the AR-15 Stocks in a different setting using the same components you previously used or do some components need to be replaced?
I drill a small hole and drop a roll pin in.. then to reverse I remove the roll pin.. last time I used a trigger guard roll pin... USUALLY you can pop it back out from the opposite side (if you drilled thru) using a punch or icepick..
Granted your SUPPOSED to epoxy over the PIN to make it not easily reversible..
of course if your geI modified a GSE 4" pistol buffer kit to fit with one of my AR-15 Stocks brackets.
It took making a custom buffer tube and modyfing the end cap.
It is about 1" short of being butt level with the collapsed wire AR-15 Stocks.
I will probably have a new cap made to make up for that, or put a rubber extension on this one,
Ok so I got it and installed it. First impressions: The AR-15 Stocks is loose and can rotate a lot even when locked in. I assume there is nothing that can be done about this unless a magpul friction lock would work. Im using a larger DIA commercial tube also.
You CANNOT use this AR-15 Stocks with a Magpul or any enhanced trigger guards, It will only work with the factory one. You'll note I dont have a trigger guard on my gun in the photos because I diden't keep the standard ones, If I chose to keep this AR-15 Stocks I'll have to order a regular TG.
You'll note there arent ANY sling attachment points, Now this I find rediculous. Who carrys their gun arround all day without a sling?. It would have been very easy to cut a slot below the buffer tube , or at the bottom of the AR-15 Stocks like any factory 4-6 possition AR-15 Stocks.
Last but not least, They shoulden't have left the buffer tube exposed on the top of the AR-15 Stocks, When locked in for single shots you should have your nose aganst the charging handle. This will produce the best and most consistant groups. (some people shoot nice groups but change their head location on the AR-15 Stocks/distance to the sight resulting in floating groups Point of impact shift.) This AR-15 Stocks leaves you with half your cheek on the AR-15 Stocks and half on the tube which I dont like. The top of the AR-15 Stocks could have come forward all the way to the tube threading, it dosent slide that far for operation.
I will go out and test fire it in a few minutes here.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Market_Garden
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Mar 2009
USA WA, USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 1669
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (5)
12/31/2010 3:49:18 PM EDT
Interesting review so far. I'm not surprised that it doesn't have a sling mount, as it probably didn't even occur to them that someone would need a sling for something like this. I'm sure this is marketed to the kind of people who are more inclined to post youtube videos of themselves and their friends cackling and dumping rounds into the dirt than the kind of people who would be needing to keep a rifle slung. (that isn't directed at you)
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
mike12345
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
USA WI, USA
Offline
Posts: 2922
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (47)
12/31/2010 3:53:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2010 4:36:25 PM EDT by mike12345]
on a side note a reciever plate/sling adaptor could be used but now your looking at ordering more parts from another source.
ETA I went out to the log pile and fired off three mags. It is controllable and a slow rate of fire like 600rpm slow something I wish my m16 would do. I was able to bump off the entire 30rd mag on the second try. Yes it works.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
mike12345
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
USA WI, USA
Offline
Posts: 2923
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (47)
12/31/2010 7:18:51 PM EDT
Well I got the cops called for firing this thing. Even though I have pre86 transferables.
They just wanted to see where I was shooting.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
NCHornet
Member
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
USA NC, USA
Offline
Posts: 1510
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (23)
12/31/2010 7:28:19 PM EDT
Not something I would buy. I too have had the neighbors call the cops when they hear me shoot. Damn yankees!!!!! The cops very nicely told them that out in the country people are allowed to shoot their guns on their own property. I reckon they finally got use to it as they don't call any more and I sure haven't stopped shooting. LOL!!!!
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
iNeXile556
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2009
USA TN, USA
Military
Deo vindice
Online
Posts: 1152
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (9)
12/31/2010 9:10:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2010 9:12:20 PM EDT by iNeXile556]
Have fun while you can. This is simply another version of the Akins Accelerator and I'll bet it will be outlawed real soon.
There are too many investors that lost millions on the Akins debacle to let this, which operates on the same principal, remain legal.
I see lawsuits coming.
"Nothing is more terrifying than ignorance in action" - Goethe, proven true November 4th, 2008
"For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well organized and armed militia is their best security". - Thomas Jefferson
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
doubleajaybrock
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2008
USA CO, USA
Im waiting for the Zombies damn it.
Offline
Posts: 938
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (54)
12/31/2010 9:35:44 PM EDT
Sorry, but I just puked in my mouth a little.
You ain't leading but two things right now. Jack and Shit. And Jack just left town.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
mike12345
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
USA WI, USA
Offline
Posts: 2925
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (47)
12/31/2010 9:36:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2010 10:12:33 PM EDT by mike12345]
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Have fun while you can. This is simply another version of the Akins Accelerator and I'll bet it will be outlawed real soon.
There are too many investors that lost millions on the Akins debacle to let this, which operates on the same principal, remain legal.
I see lawsuits coming.
The akins accellerator used a spring to return the gun forward, The spring was considered the machinegun becuase it was pushing the gun into your finger resulting in continuous fire.
This has no spring, you push forward on the gun to make it fire, 1 shot per trigger pull. I dont see anyway to ban this AR-15 Stocks.
Sort of like the crank fire guns, its legal but you cant add an electric engine to spin the crank or its a machine gun.
Originally Posted By doubleajaybrock:
Sorry, but I just puked in my mouth a little.
Yes its fugly but it works.
I decided to keep mine so i'll be taking it in and milling a slot for a Blackhawk swift sling.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
iNeXile556
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2009
USA TN, USA
Military
Deo vindice
Online
Posts: 1153
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (9)
1/1/2011 12:37:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mike12345:
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Have fun while you can. This is simply another version of the Akins Accelerator and I'll bet it will be outlawed real soon.
There are too many investors that lost millions on the Akins debacle to let this, which operates on the same principal, remain legal.
I see lawsuits coming.
The akins accellerator used a spring to return the gun forward, The spring was considered the machinegun becuase it was pushing the gun into your finger resulting in continuous fire.
This has no spring, you push forward on the gun to make it fire, 1 shot per trigger pull. I dont see anyway to ban this AR-15 Stocks.
Sort of like the crank fire guns, its legal but you cant add an electric engine to spin the crank or its a machine gun.
Originally Posted By doubleajaybrock:
Sorry, but I just puked in my mouth a little.
Yes its fugly but it works.
I decided to keep mine so i'll be taking it in and milling a slot for a Blackhawk swift sling.
The Akins was also a one trigger pull/one shot deal. Hell your finger actually came off the trigger between firings. The Akins was approved not just once but twice. In the clarification response letter the BATFE in clear concise language spelled out in detail the design and operation of the device proving they had complete understanding of the device and its use and approved it the second time. Then 2 years into production and sales they looked at an actual working firearm and shit themselves.
Did you read the approval letter for this thing?
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 3:01:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 3:02:11 PM EDT by JustJim]
Not mil, just a 'hobby shooter'. My AR is also my HD weapon. One click out. Compact and gives me good cheek-weld and sight picture.
ETA: I'm 5'8, 170.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
evlblkwpnz
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Aug 2008
USA FL, USA
Gunshine State Native
Offline
Posts: 3124
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (39)
9/27/2011 3:07:43 PM EDT
I assume that you want to use the weapon while standing, so use the minimum length that will allow a good view of your iron sights of the proper eye relaid for your optic. The 3rd position out seems to be the sweet spot for me with a small aperture and around 4 or 5 with a large one.
What type of rear sight are you using?
I use the AR-15 Stocks further out when I am benched.
I am a slave to my creations.... my image cannot be seen in them, but they bear my heart and soul - evl....
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
SickMAK90
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2004
USA WV, USA
What goes here?!
Online
Posts: 6122
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (9)
9/27/2011 3:15:26 PM EDT
I always run my 2 spots out from the shortest position. Most of my friends adjust it all the way out when they shoot my rifles for some reason. I have ape arms and I love the rifle being tucked in close.
If you are in the Huntington, WV area check out Herd Tactical. www.herdtactical.com 304-302-0509
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
kkuo12887
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
USA NJ, USA
Offline
Posts: 7
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 3:15:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By evlblkwpnz:
I assume that you want to use the weapon while standing, so use the minimum length that will allow a good view of your iron sights of the proper eye relaid for your optic. The 3rd position out seems to be the sweet spot for me with a small aperture and around 4 or 5 with a large one.
What type of rear sight are you using?
I use the AR-15 Stocks further out when I am benched.
Yes, primarily while standing (unsupported). It seems that having the AR-15 Stocks extended out a little farther while shooting from the prone position is more comfortable.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
sinlessorrow
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jun 2010
USA TX, USA
Member
Online
Posts: 3613
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (18)
9/27/2011 3:18:30 PM EDT
im 5'10" and run my AR-15 Stockss fully collapsed
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
contax_shooter
Member
Member
Joined: Aug 2011
USA USA
Offline
Posts: 33
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (2)
9/27/2011 3:32:04 PM EDT
2 stops from fully collapsed with standard 7" carbine rail.
1 stop from fully collapsed with 11" rail.
Further reach on the front end, makes better ergonomics with the AR-15 Stocks more collapsed.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Mb121
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Mar 2003
USA MS, USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 857
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (3)
9/27/2011 3:33:32 PM EDT
For me it depends on what AR-15 Stocks it is and if I am wearing a vest or other gear. Anywhere from the 1/2 position (1st notch) to fully extended is what I normally use. For the CTR I found myself running it from the 1/2 position when shooting with body armor, without I would use the 3/4. For me it boiled down to being able to keep my shooter stance and remaining comfortable while shooting (i.e not having to stain my neck to the sight or allowed me to bring the sight to my face without having to readjust).
Really it will depend on you the individual, often you have to play around with it to find the best position for you.
Tomahawks, 3rd SBCT
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Augee
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Sep 2006
USA USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 3860
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (34)
9/27/2011 3:37:09 PM EDT
Shooting with hard plates (IOTV) and without (FLC) are two different things, and you'll need the AR-15 Stocks at different positions to shoot the same way.
FWIW- while patrolling, particularly if vehicle based, you will find that it's probably easiest to roll with the AR-15 Stocks all the way collapsed, when wearing hard plates, you'll find that it's not so cramped. Without the body armor, I usually run mine one notch out on an M4 receiver extension (4 position), which equates to two or three notches out on a 6 position AR-15 Stocks, basically just far enough that you can see the slanted end of the "track" that the locking pin sits in without any of the straight bottom exposed.
This is to shoot "squared up" with the target, as if presenting plates to the enemy. That being said, different positions dictate different AR-15 Stocks lengths, I pull the AR-15 Stocks out further. I also tend to shoot NTCH whenever possible, though.
IMHO, if stuck in Jersey, decide which AR-15 Stocks you plan to run first (personally not a big fan of the MOE that DDs come with- though I like the CTR), and have that pinned. Since most of your shooting on your personal carbine is going to be done without wearing hard plates, have it pinned where it's comfortable offhand. Realize that if and when you need to use your weapon, it's probably going to be in a moment, "oh shit!" because if you're doing a whole lot of trigger pulling as an LT, you're either not fighting your troops correctly, and don't actually run them; or, no one's really expecting to go home that day.
~Augee
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
kkuo12887
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
USA NJ, USA
Offline
Posts: 8
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 3:41:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Augee:
Shooting with hard plates (IOTV) and without (FLC) are two different things, and you'll need the AR-15 Stocks at different positions to shoot the same way.
FWIW- while patrolling, particularly if vehicle based, you will find that it's probably easiest to roll with the AR-15 Stocks all the way collapsed, when wearing hard plates, you'll find that it's not so cramped. Without the body armor, I usually run mine one notch out on an M4 receiver extension (4 position), which equates to two or three notches out on a 6 position AR-15 Stocks, basically just far enough that you can see the slanted end of the "track" that the locking pin sits in without any of the straight bottom exposed.
This is to shoot "squared up" with the target, as if presenting plates to the enemy. That being said, different positions dictate different AR-15 Stocks lengths, I pull the AR-15 Stocks out further. I also tend to shoot NTCH whenever possible, though.
IMHO, if stuck in Jersey, decide which AR-15 Stocks you plan to run first (personally not a big fan of the MOE that DDs come with- though I like the CTR), and have that pinned. Since most of your shooting on your personal carbine is going to be done without wearing hard plates, have it pinned where it's comfortable offhand. Realize that if and when you need to use your weapon, it's probably going to be in a moment, "oh shit!" because if you're doing a whole lot of trigger pulling as an LT, you're either not fighting your troops correctly, and don't actually run them; or, no one's really expecting to go home that day.
~Augee
Truth. Either it's becoming a really bad situation or it already is one. Hopefully it's not a demotion from PL to Rifleman because of earth shattering incompetence.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
kkuo12887
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
USA NJ, USA
Offline
Posts: 9
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 4:01:15 PM EDT
Also, is AR-15 Stocks pinning reversible? If you find the position to be less than desirable can you re-pin the AR-15 Stocks in a different setting using the same components you previously used or do some components need to be replaced?
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
taylor7401
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Sep 2008
USA TX, USA
Member
Online
Posts: 1000
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 4:02:06 PM EDT
All the way out with a butt pad strapped on and some foam padding taped to it, but I'm 6'8'' tall.
YMMV
Daniel
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
sgwlower
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jul 2003
USA RI, USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 3458
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (23)
9/27/2011 4:04:14 PM EDT
6'2" 1st or second notch depending on clothing.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Duffy
Company Rep
Dealer
Joined: Jan 2001
USA USA
Battle Arms Development
Online
Posts: 14507
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (47)
9/27/2011 5:46:52 PM EDT
AR-15 Stocks completely closed pretty much all the time, except with my SPRs with Leupold Mk4 scopes that stick out toward the back quite a bit (with ARMS rings).
My favorite scope is the 4x32 ACOG, with its 1.5" eye relief, it requires the AR-15 Stocks to be closed or in its first position. After a while, I don't bother extending it even when I shoot with an Aimpoint or EOTech.
With body armor, AR-15 Stocks completely collapsed is the only way to get a good eye relief on the ACOG, so I just simplify everything by shooting with it closed all the time.
Battle Arms Development
http://battlearmsdevelopment.com
For LE/MIL, and firefighter discount, please email me at:
roger@battlearmsdevelopment.com
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
woode
Member
Member
Joined: May 2010
USA PA, USA
Offline
Posts: 700
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 7:58:25 PM EDT
5'11", 3rd click out usually (+/- 1 depending)
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
jcshunter
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: May 2005
USA TN, USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 379
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 8:21:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 8:23:08 PM EDT by jcshunter]
I use position 2 on a Vltor 5 holer. You might consider this and add 1/2 to 1 inch pad to get to the lenght you want and seems better than a pinned AR-15 Stocks 1/2 inch pad seems best.
JCS
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
engineer2001
Member
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
USA GA, USA
Offline
Posts: 9448
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (117)
9/27/2011 8:41:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jcshunter:
I use position 2 on a Vltor 5 holer. You might consider this and add 1/2 to 1 inch pad to get to the lenght you want and seems better than a pinned AR-15 Stocks 1/2 inch pad seems best.
JCS
Yeah, I use one of those ARFX-E AR-15 Stockss on a 9mm AR carbine, and it is the perfect length with the 1" pad to put my nose on the charging handle. I find the A1 fixed AR-15 Stocks to also be about the perfect length for me. I am 6'7" tall, though, so your length may vary.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
epsgunner
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2011
USA PA, USA
Offline
Posts: 611
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (5)
9/27/2011 8:47:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By kkuo12887:
Also, is AR-15 Stocks pinning reversible? If you find the position to be less than desirable can you re-pin the AR-15 Stocks in a different setting using the same components you previously used or do some components need to be replaced?
I drill a small hole and drop a roll pin in.. then to reverse I remove the roll pin.. last time I used a trigger guard roll pin... USUALLY you can pop it back out from the opposite side (if you drilled thru) using a punch or icepick..
Granted your SUPPOSED to epoxy over the PIN to make it not easily reversible..
of course if your getting THAT TIGHTLY INSPECTED your usually in trouble for something bigger in life.. IMHO..
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
wrenchmonkey
Member
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
USA UT, USA
Offline
Posts: 672
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 8:50:00 PM EDT
In before the comment advising you to 'move to a free state'.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
dcs12345
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Oct 2005
USA TX, USA
KABOOM!!!!!!!
Online
Posts: 5772
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (33)
9/27/2011 9:33:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/27/2011 9:52:37 PM EDT by dcs12345]
Originally Posted By SickMAK90:
I always run my 2 spots out from the shortest position. Most of my friends adjust it all the way out when they shoot my rifles for some reason. I have ape arms and I love the rifle being tucked in close.
Most likely your friends are standing bladed to the target instead of squared up.
I like the AR-15 Stocks on my SBR two clicks out, as well as the acs AR-15 Stocks on my 16" with Acog. (the slanted part of the slotted track is just sticking out of the AR-15 Stocks)
I am around 6'3"
Let us disappoint the Men who are raising themselves upon the ruin of this Country.
~John Adams
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
kkuo12887
Member
Member
Joined: Sep 2011
USA NJ, USA
Offline
Posts: 10
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 9:37:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By wrenchmonkey:
In before the comment advising you to 'move to a free state'.
Heh. I always wonder what goes through the minds of those who make these suggestions? Do they honestly think that someone's going to say, Oh! Darn it! Why didn't I think of that yesterday? Let me pack my bags because I'm moving tomorrow."
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
wrenchmonkey
Member
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
USA UT, USA
Offline
Posts: 674
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/27/2011 9:40:08 PM EDT
Well, HAD it occurred to you then? Why didn't you already do that, if you already thought of it
LOL!
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
JoshAston
Lifetime Member
Life Member
Joined: Oct 2008
UZB UZB
Military
Percussion Instruments Are My Specialty
Online
Posts: 12935
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (3)
9/27/2011 10:56:34 PM EDT
I'd call up DD and see if they can send you a rifle with a Sully AR-15 Stocks on it. It might be ugly and a little on the heavy side, but it's the perfect length, and there won't be any need to pin it.
I, like God, do not play with dice and do not believe in coincidence.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
pun
Member
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
USA USA
Offline
Posts: 2014
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (41)
9/28/2011 1:33:58 AM EDT
Try a stubby AR-15 Stocks its a half sized fixed M16 AR-15 Stocks with a carbine spring and buffer its about an inch shorter than an adjustable AR-15 Stocks 2 notches out from closed.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Krylancelo
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Dec 2008
USA NE, USA
"Average Earth Person"
Offline
Posts: 2695
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (6)
9/28/2011 9:30:01 AM EDT
I'm about 6' tall. I run my AR-15 Stocks about 3 clicks out on a 6 position so I'm guessing that's equal to about 2 clicks out on a 4 position.
Proud member of the National Rifle Association, Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, and Eastern Nebraska Gun Club.
I avoid political discussion because no one agrees with my strange mix of beliefs. But I am pro-gun, pro-self defense, and pro-America.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
TangoPapa
Member
Member
Joined: Jul 2011
USA CT, USA
Offline
Posts: 66
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 0% (0)
9/28/2011 10:50:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/28/2011 10:55:57 AM EDT by TangoPapa]
It honestly depends on what the rifle will be used for. I am 5'8" and 180lbs and I pinned my AR-15 Stocks in the first setting. My gun is primarily a home defense gun and I liked the way it felt when moving around a corner with the short AR-15 Stocks.
I do however have an a2 AR-15 Stocks as well and if I plan on taking it to the range I tend to swap the AR-15 Stockss out (I need a new lower ). Luckily for me though I will be leaving this ban state soon enough, and with any luck I will be stationed at Fort Benning.
Originally Posted By epsgunner:
Originally Posted By kkuo12887:
Also, is AR-15 Stocks pinning reversible? If you find the position to be less than desirable can you re-pin the AR-15 Stocks in a different setting using the same components you previously used or do some components need to be replaced?
I drill a small hole and drop a roll pin in.. then to reverse I remove the roll pin.. last time I used a trigger guard roll pin... USUALLY you can pop it back out from the opposite side (if you drilled thru) using a punch or icepick..
Granted your SUPPOSED to epoxy over the PIN to make it not easily reversible..
of course if your geI modified a GSE 4" pistol buffer kit to fit with one of my AR-15 Stocks brackets.
It took making a custom buffer tube and modyfing the end cap.
It is about 1" short of being butt level with the collapsed wire AR-15 Stocks.
I will probably have a new cap made to make up for that, or put a rubber extension on this one,
Ok so I got it and installed it. First impressions: The AR-15 Stocks is loose and can rotate a lot even when locked in. I assume there is nothing that can be done about this unless a magpul friction lock would work. Im using a larger DIA commercial tube also.
You CANNOT use this AR-15 Stocks with a Magpul or any enhanced trigger guards, It will only work with the factory one. You'll note I dont have a trigger guard on my gun in the photos because I diden't keep the standard ones, If I chose to keep this AR-15 Stocks I'll have to order a regular TG.
You'll note there arent ANY sling attachment points, Now this I find rediculous. Who carrys their gun arround all day without a sling?. It would have been very easy to cut a slot below the buffer tube , or at the bottom of the AR-15 Stocks like any factory 4-6 possition AR-15 Stocks.
Last but not least, They shoulden't have left the buffer tube exposed on the top of the AR-15 Stocks, When locked in for single shots you should have your nose aganst the charging handle. This will produce the best and most consistant groups. (some people shoot nice groups but change their head location on the AR-15 Stocks/distance to the sight resulting in floating groups Point of impact shift.) This AR-15 Stocks leaves you with half your cheek on the AR-15 Stocks and half on the tube which I dont like. The top of the AR-15 Stocks could have come forward all the way to the tube threading, it dosent slide that far for operation.
I will go out and test fire it in a few minutes here.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
Market_Garden
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Mar 2009
USA WA, USA
Member
Offline
Posts: 1669
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (5)
12/31/2010 3:49:18 PM EDT
Interesting review so far. I'm not surprised that it doesn't have a sling mount, as it probably didn't even occur to them that someone would need a sling for something like this. I'm sure this is marketed to the kind of people who are more inclined to post youtube videos of themselves and their friends cackling and dumping rounds into the dirt than the kind of people who would be needing to keep a rifle slung. (that isn't directed at you)
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
mike12345
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
USA WI, USA
Offline
Posts: 2922
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (47)
12/31/2010 3:53:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2010 4:36:25 PM EDT by mike12345]
on a side note a reciever plate/sling adaptor could be used but now your looking at ordering more parts from another source.
ETA I went out to the log pile and fired off three mags. It is controllable and a slow rate of fire like 600rpm slow something I wish my m16 would do. I was able to bump off the entire 30rd mag on the second try. Yes it works.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
mike12345
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
USA WI, USA
Offline
Posts: 2923
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (47)
12/31/2010 7:18:51 PM EDT
Well I got the cops called for firing this thing. Even though I have pre86 transferables.
They just wanted to see where I was shooting.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
NCHornet
Member
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
USA NC, USA
Offline
Posts: 1510
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (23)
12/31/2010 7:28:19 PM EDT
Not something I would buy. I too have had the neighbors call the cops when they hear me shoot. Damn yankees!!!!! The cops very nicely told them that out in the country people are allowed to shoot their guns on their own property. I reckon they finally got use to it as they don't call any more and I sure haven't stopped shooting. LOL!!!!
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
iNeXile556
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2009
USA TN, USA
Military
Deo vindice
Online
Posts: 1152
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (9)
12/31/2010 9:10:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2010 9:12:20 PM EDT by iNeXile556]
Have fun while you can. This is simply another version of the Akins Accelerator and I'll bet it will be outlawed real soon.
There are too many investors that lost millions on the Akins debacle to let this, which operates on the same principal, remain legal.
I see lawsuits coming.
"Nothing is more terrifying than ignorance in action" - Goethe, proven true November 4th, 2008
"For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well organized and armed militia is their best security". - Thomas Jefferson
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
doubleajaybrock
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2008
USA CO, USA
Im waiting for the Zombies damn it.
Offline
Posts: 938
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (54)
12/31/2010 9:35:44 PM EDT
Sorry, but I just puked in my mouth a little.
You ain't leading but two things right now. Jack and Shit. And Jack just left town.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
mike12345
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
USA WI, USA
Offline
Posts: 2925
Link To This Post
EE Feedback 100% (47)
12/31/2010 9:36:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/31/2010 10:12:33 PM EDT by mike12345]
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Have fun while you can. This is simply another version of the Akins Accelerator and I'll bet it will be outlawed real soon.
There are too many investors that lost millions on the Akins debacle to let this, which operates on the same principal, remain legal.
I see lawsuits coming.
The akins accellerator used a spring to return the gun forward, The spring was considered the machinegun becuase it was pushing the gun into your finger resulting in continuous fire.
This has no spring, you push forward on the gun to make it fire, 1 shot per trigger pull. I dont see anyway to ban this AR-15 Stocks.
Sort of like the crank fire guns, its legal but you cant add an electric engine to spin the crank or its a machine gun.
Originally Posted By doubleajaybrock:
Sorry, but I just puked in my mouth a little.
Yes its fugly but it works.
I decided to keep mine so i'll be taking it in and milling a slot for a Blackhawk swift sling.
User Info
IM User
Email User
Reply
Quote
Report
iNeXile556
Bronze Contributor
Team Member
Joined: Jan 2009
USA TN, USA
Military
Deo vindice
Online
Posts: 1153
Link To This Post
Blog User Blog
Media Media Collections
EE Feedback 100% (9)
1/1/2011 12:37:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mike12345:
Originally Posted By iNeXile556:
Have fun while you can. This is simply another version of the Akins Accelerator and I'll bet it will be outlawed real soon.
There are too many investors that lost millions on the Akins debacle to let this, which operates on the same principal, remain legal.
I see lawsuits coming.
The akins accellerator used a spring to return the gun forward, The spring was considered the machinegun becuase it was pushing the gun into your finger resulting in continuous fire.
This has no spring, you push forward on the gun to make it fire, 1 shot per trigger pull. I dont see anyway to ban this AR-15 Stocks.
Sort of like the crank fire guns, its legal but you cant add an electric engine to spin the crank or its a machine gun.
Originally Posted By doubleajaybrock:
Sorry, but I just puked in my mouth a little.
Yes its fugly but it works.
I decided to keep mine so i'll be taking it in and milling a slot for a Blackhawk swift sling.
The Akins was also a one trigger pull/one shot deal. Hell your finger actually came off the trigger between firings. The Akins was approved not just once but twice. In the clarification response letter the BATFE in clear concise language spelled out in detail the design and operation of the device proving they had complete understanding of the device and its use and approved it the second time. Then 2 years into production and sales they looked at an actual working firearm and shit themselves.
Did you read the approval letter for this thing?
# posted by hondaestelle @ 9:22 PM 
